MurderInc-Online.Com recently sat down with Producer/Engineer/Manager and head of Afrigang Ent. Buck 3000 to talk about his new venture Afrowave Music, and get the inside scoop on Murder Inc. Records, past, present and future. Who better to let the fans know how it is, than the man who’s been there through it all.
MIO: Tell us about Afrowave Music for people who don’t know what’s going on.
Buck 3000: Ok, well first of all I’m Nigerian and I never really got into my whole Nigerian thing because I was born here and I was trying to do my hip hop thing, which I’m still doing obviously, but my cousins, who are obviously Nigerian also, they’ve been rapping and trying to do something for the Nigerian community in New York. So I’m like “Yo, what’s going on right there?” But they weren’t that good, so I was like “get outta here!” So eventually they got better and they invited me to a Nigerian Music Award show, I didn’t ‘know that they had those award shows, in New York. So I went there and I was like, the Nigerian thing is TOO Nigerian, it’s too out there, I’m like “I can’t deal with this.” So what I wanna do is incorporate American hip-hop with Nigerian music, and that’s where the Afrowave comes from. “AfroBeat” I don’t know whether you know Phili but he’s a Nigerian artist, he was like the James Brown of Nigeria, he died, I think he died of AIDS actually but he had the “AfroBeat” and then there’s the new wave is like the 80’s sound so I’m like “you know what? Afrowave!” I’m trying to bring the 80’s sound back plus the African thing so I decided to call it Afrowave Music. So I have Iceberg Slim and Rico White, those are my two artists that are trying to get it poppin and i'm the god father right now.
MIO: So what are the ultimate plans for Afrowave Music, what’s the expansion plan?
Buck 3000: The plan right now is to get them popping a little bit more, which is working, we’re growing, growing, growing. I’m trying to incorporate Ja Rule and Ashanti into the mix and where we could go to Africa and do a show, because he’s already been in Nigeria and they love him out there. Plus I have family out there and I’m going in December. Hopefully D-Lyfe will be there too, he’s actually going to be doing a radio station out there too. Ja’s willing to go out there, but, it has to be right, I’ve got to make it right before he comes there because they love him out there, so its 50:50, Ja helps us and we help him. That’s how it works.
MIO: Afrowave has a few mixtapes out right now; can you tell us a bit about those?
Buck 3000: Yeah, we’ve got Iceberg Slim’s “Soulfood” mixtape out right now, actually he brought it out before but I had nothing to do with that so we decided to put it back out remastered. And Rico White is coming out with a new one called “The Treatment” so he’s putting that out too so we’re trying to make that happen. He wanted to sell it but I’m like “you can’t sell mixtapes right now, nobody knows you!” It has to be free music, and I make like 50% of the beats so we just gotta put it out like that.
MIO: So Rico White and Iceberg Slim, do they have similar sounds?
Buck 3000: They’re brothers, Rico White is older, and they’re both my cousins. Iceberg Slim is “The Guy” he’s the main character, he’s the Ja Rule of Afrowave. In fact I’m gonna have to go deeper, Afrowave is just the sound “AfriGang” is the label. That’s the imprint.
MIO: And you’re the CEO of Afrigang?
Buck 3000: Not really because Iceberg Slim started it. But I’m taking over so yeah, I’m CEO of Afrigang Ent.
MIO: You bring a level of credibility to the project.
Buck 3000: Exactly, and that’s the point of me stepping in. Because I know a lot of industry people and labels that might pick it up. Because Irv is not even thinking about that, so I’m not even thinking about him, what he’s after is something that’s popping already, so that’s what I’m trying to do, I’m trying to make us lukewarm or hot, whatever . When we do that, then we can worry about the Irv Gottis or Lyors (Cohen) of the world. Right now we’re just trying to sell mixtapes and move them across the board.
MIO: You’re obviously really busy between that and here where you’re being called from this studio to that studio and so on....
Buck 3000: Yeah, I’m needed in every studio.
MIO: Exactly, so can you break down “A day in the life of Buck 3000” how do you have time to fit it all in, with family and everything.
Buck 3000: Ok, I wake up at maybe 1/2pm and I have to mix a record or make a beat before I go to the gym, and this will take maybe 2 hours to make a beat or mix a record, so maybe 4/5pm I go to the gym, then I pick my son up at 6pm and come here (Crackhouse Studio) and 7pm. Now while I’m here, we have 3 studios, right now we have Boe Skagz, we have Newz, we have different producers, we have Ja Rule of course, and like I said we have 3 rooms. So sometimes Ja comes and he’s in one room but there’s always something that needs to be done, maybe a mix here, a mix there, so I’m really not in one room the whole time. I’m in 3 different rooms the whole night. I’m like A&Ring right now, I’ve been an A&R, so I’m like A&R/producer/ mix engineer, you name it, call me “Slash.” You name it, I’m doing it. And I’m managing the Crackhouse too, I’m making sure everybody is in certain rooms and making sure that everybody is taken care of.
MIO: So when the Crackhouse relocated from Soho to here, you obviously played a major role in orchestrating that move?
Buck 3000: Yes, before it was actually done, I was here making sure that everything was right and wrongs were corrected. But obviously Irv had the final say. But on a day to day I was here fixing stuff, so yes. I didn’t get paid for it! (laughs) But that’s cool!
MIO: Tell us about the new engineers, Bryce and Wes.
Buck 3000: Bryce, when Bryce started working for us, he’d never worked in a studio before so this was his first time in the studio and he’s stepping his game up. Wes never went to school, but Bryce went to school. They’re both learning so they’re both getting better now.
MIO: Are you mentoring them?
Buck 3000: Yes, definitely.
MIO: So they relieve a lot of pressure from you?
Buck 3000: Wow, tremendously! At one point and at several points I was the only guy in 3 rooms. Literally I was the one engineer for the 3 rooms so if I wasn’t there nothing was going down. So what I would do is, in each room I’d have the music looping so that they (the artists) could write to it and when they were done and ready to record I would go in and record them and vice versa, I’d have to stop certain session because obviously Ja Rule was number 1 priority. So when Ja Rule comes all else stops. Then Newz, then Boe Skagz and people like that. But yeah I’m glad they came because seriously it was like wooo, you can imagine!!
MIO: You would have burnt out!
Buck 3000: I was! That’s why I was like, “yo I need help man!”
MIO: You’ve been here for 9 years; do you have any favourite memories from your time here?
Buck 3000: Yes of course, I think most of them are with Ashanti because you know when we work, it’s just me and her, so when we do a record it’s just me and her in the studio doing it. But I could say Ja because we went to Miami, we were in Miami doing “The Last Temptation.” We were there for a whole month. Bobby Brown came to the studio – he looked crazy man! And I’m not the only one that would say that, Ja would probably say the same thing, only he might not say it to you! That was crazy, and at the same time I met Lenny Kravitz, Heavy D came to the studio, that’s when Ja was the “guy.” He just sold 6 million on “Pain is Love” so it was like, “The Last Temptation” was supposed to sell 8 million. That was the issue, “Last Temptation” was supposed to do 8 million and it didn’t, that was where the problems started. It was crazy, there was just so much love in Miami. I’ve got a lot of memories!
MIO: You’ve experienced both the highs and lows of Murder Inc., which do you find more challenging – the success or the struggle?
Buck 3000: Trust me, the challenge was then, the challenge now is a different challenge. Back then, at the time, even though we worked hard back then, it seemed like the songs were going to work regardless, we had the momentum, everything was going our way, but now that we don’t have that momentum, we’re still doing good songs, but it feels like the music isn’t being heard. I don’t know if that’s a challenge in itself but I feel like the music is still of the same quality but it’s just so hard putting it out there because the public don’t want to hear us at all. It’s fucked up, I don’t know what the problem is! I know what the problem is, but I don’t know if we can fix it is the issue. You all hear the music, its good music, is it because we’re not as united as we used to be? I don’t know!
MIO: It could be any number of things.
Buck 3000: Yeah, but Ja’s still here, he’s the one that started this whole thing, so what’s the problem?
MIO: So you’ve engineered pretty much every major release on Murder Inc.
Buck 3000: Starting from Rule 3:36.
MIO: For that, you worked closely with Irv Gotti, what’s it like working with Irv?
Buck 3000: wooo, The Guy! He demands perfection; see the thing about Irv is he’s so into his own world that sometimes he doesn’t let you into his world. Like he’s so up there that sometimes you don’t know what he’s thinking about so he gets frustrated easily when you’re not on his world. I’m like “yo ,Irv – I don’t understand what you’re saying, you’re all the way over there thinking about some other shit!” He made hits for Jay-Z, DMX, Ja Rule, he’s been making hits for a lot of people before he even started Murder Inc. So his elevation is completely different to everybody else’s. So a lot of the time I’m like “just come down for a second, let me in on what you’re thinking” and sometimes he lets me in on his world and sometimes he doesn’t, but when he does, I understand him more and more and more. It’s hard to be him.
MIO: What have you learned from him?
Buck 3000: Everything, before I came here I was an engineer, but coming here, meeting him and seeing him how he operates – I’m ready for anything right now, I’m serious. I’m probably the most ready out of anybody in here. Besides Ja Rule, obviously, but I’m ready for anything. He taught me a lot, but not like him teaching me “Buck do this, do that” it was all from watching him and what he dealt with.
MIO: You mentioned a while ago about Murder Inc. not being as united as before, can you elaborate on what you meant by that?
Buck 3000: When I first got here, Ja was the guy, sorry, he wasn’t the guy yet. VVV had come out and sold 1.5-2 million so Def Jam demanded a new record, and they got it. So when I first met him, that’s what they were working on – 3:36, then that blew up. That’s still not the highlight, that’s still not the top thing, “Pain is Love” is when things got really crazy, when he did the joint with J-Lo “I’m Real” and all that, that’s when it was real crazy. But what I did see there was a lot of potential, there was Charli Baltimore, Vita, Caddilac, Black Child, Ashanti, a lot of potential going on. After a while I think the public didn’t accept the other artists as much and people started to feel a certain way. Then Lloyd comes in and he did it, new artist but then again Lloyd sold 400k, he didn’t do that well, he was the first artist to come out of Murder Inc. that didn’t go platinum. So in Irv’s mind its like “what is going on? We’ve gotta fix this.” So Lloyd had his own little tantrum and started acting crazy and nobody saw eye to eye and it was confusing.
MIO: Where did the whole “obsession” with platinum come from?
Buck 3000: It was the industry at the time. At the time, to be looked at as a good artist, you had to go platinum, gold? No, nobody does that, I mean they do it but its like “who are you? No one knows you!” And that was good at one point now it’s like even better though, but back then, you had to go platinum.
MIO: Do you think it was unfair to hold more street artists like Caddilac Tah and Black Child to the same commercial expectations as an artist like Ja Rule?
Buck 3000: Of course! Everyone admits that, that was probably one of the biggest mistakes we had, trying to put them in that same category, but at the time we didn’t know any better. Only time could tell that that would happen, we didn’t know any better, but to us it was the perfect thing to do because at the time you had other artists from other labels doing the same thing, like Bad Boy. With Bad Boy – everybody that came out went platinum, if you were on Bad Boy you were ok, and that’s what we wanted to do, we wanted to do the same thing, but it just didn’t come out like that.
MIO: Do you think that you felt untouchable at the time?
Buck 3000: We were untouchable, I mean I was the engineer and I felt untouchable! I’m not even talking about the artists, I was the engineer in the studio and I thought that I was that guy! Everybody, everybody in the room, every party we went to, it wasn’t even us, people were treating us like that. “Oh, he’s from Murder Inc?? OH MY GOD!” Everything was free, everything. So that was the problem and I think we didn’t deal with it properly, that’s all. That’s why they say when you get that fame you gotta know how to handle it. That was the problem, it was too much.
MIO: How big a blow was it after the whole beef situation and things began to slide?
Buck 3000: You know what really made it worse was Irv’s trial, that was a problem. Like “Oh shit! Is he going to jail? What are we going to do?” Because nobody else really got anything else popping like everything was Murder Inc. so it was like, if he goes we all go, that was the main concern. Irv is an ill dude, that whole 50 thing – that was nothing, like we all knew that Irv would do it and Ja would go back to doing what he does and everything would be fine. It would be Ja for 6 months, then 50 for 6 months, that’s what we thought but it didn’t work like that.
MIO: During the trial, did you ever feel like it was time to get out before Irv goes down?
Buck 3000: I can’t even remember, I don’t think so, because we actually went to the court every day, without working, we did not work during that whole time, nobody was getting paid, the court was every single day, making sure that he doesn’t go to jail. That’s what we were thinking about him going to jail, because they really didn’t have anything on him. They tried to make him say certain things but he actually had nothing to do with it, with none of that shit. So they were just trying to get something out of him but there was nothing in it, nothing there. Tina reassured us like “He’s not going anywhere, we’re gonna be alright.” But that trial, that’s what messed us up, that’s what got us out of the Def Jam building and fucked us up for real. Without the Def Jam building we had nothing, we had to get another office somewhere else and there was nobody there. At the time, in the Def Jam building, everybody was there, if you wanted to get a feature you would just go downstairs and say “I want a feature with so and so” and it worked like that. But now, we’re in a different building and that messed us up for sure. That’s what it was, 50, yeah he had a little something to do with it but really, us not being in the building really messed us up for real, for real. There was no unity.
MIO: Ok so after the trial, everybody was on a high, the new deal came through and everybody was expecting big things to happen. But they never really did. Can you offer any insight on that time?
Buck 3000: I don’t even know the answer to that question. All I know was that it was a frustrating time, because I thought it was going to be a big deal and it wasn’t. I don’t know what happened exactly that made it not be a big deal and I mean like it was supposed to be a major deal on our laps and I was like “damn it didn’t happen!” I actually don’t know that answer. I wish I did, but I don’t. We all just felt disappointed.
MIO: On a brighter note: how is Rule’s album turning out?
Buck 3000: Which one?
MIO: The new one, the untitled one. (later confirmed as VVV 2010)
Buck 3000: Before we even go there, I think “The Mirror” was a classic album, I really wish [that would have come out]. Universal, they must not have liked us or something, because that shit there was a waste of time if you ask me.
MIO: So Universal blocked the project?
Buck 3000: Hell yeah, they fucked that up man!
MIO: We’ve heard talk about Sylvia...
Buck 3000: Well Sylvia, and I’m not saying Sylvia is a bad person but Sylvia didn’t understand Irv, that’s all that is! They didn’t understand each other.
MIO: But Lyor and Kevin did...
Buck 3000: And that’s what Irv knows, and he understands, he probably just knows how to deal with men more in that type of situation. Like I know with Lyor, they have a sort of weird relationship like “fuck you – fuck you too!” type of relationship. But when that happened with Sylvia, she’s like “huh? Fuck me? Oh, well cool then!” See Lyor understood Irv, Irv grew with him, Lyor was his mentor, so that’s how Irv thinks.
MIO: How did you feel about the single selection/promotion for “The Mirror”?
Buck 3000: What were the singles again?
MIO: Well Uh-Oh leaked first, then there was “Body” but actually, “Free” leaked very first...
Buck 3000: See I don’t even understand that because when we tried to put out “Free” people didn’t like that.
MIO: Who didn’t like it? They probably just didn’t get it!
Buck 3000: There you go, they didn’t get it! That made people think, ok let’s not use that.
MIO: Are you talking about the general public?
Buck 3000: I’m talking about the DJ’s and the People like that. We had a plan for that album, “Free” was supposed to come out and it was supposed to be “That Record!” cuz that record was dope. If Ja was popping, that record could have been popping, it’s just that “nobody likes Ja no more” and everybody is on 50’s dick and all this dumb shit and no one liked the dude so that’s what messed it up. But, if God willing, they loved that record, the plan was “Free” was going to come out and then “Father Forgive Me” was going to come out and we were going to be at the Grammys, Paul McCartney was supposed to come out and it was supposed to be crazy! That’s what the plan was! Oh man it could have been so perfect, but it just didn’t work.
MIO: How did you feel about Ja releasing “The Mirror” for free, do you think it was the right thing to do?
Buck 3000: I was the one who said “NO, don’t do that!” But he didn’t do it.... I did it!
MIO: It had been leaked for a while though....
Buck 3000: Yeah so I was like “Fuck it let’s do it!” But yeah, I did it, don’t let him tell you he did it!
Buck 3000: But the NEW album, “untitled” – it think he already named it.
MIO: The welcome to RuleYork Mixtape?
Buck 3000: No, that’s different. Anyway on this one, on the new one, he’s doing him! Have you heard anything from the new one?
MIO: We’ve heard Hollywood, Do I...
Buck 3000: There you go..
MIO: So are they going on the new album or on the Welcome to Ruleyork?
Buck 3000: First of all, “Welcome to RuleYork” is basically all hard tracks, there’s nothing “Always on Time-ish” on this one. This is like a “Blood In My Eye” type thing. “Welcome to RuleYork” is like “Blood In My Eye” but not as hard as “Blood in my Eye,” he’s just trying to do him, he’s not upset anymore, he’s just trying to do him. Irv actually brought it to my attention, and I didn’t know this, the public don’t know him as a hardcore rapper! That’s crazy!
MIO: The fans do.
Buck 3000: You think?
MIO: The hardcore fans do. The people who buy the records know that he can spit.
Buck 3000: It’s the same thing with Plies, he has hard tracks, but how would I know when all I hear is the “Ja type records.” But anyway I didn’t know that because I’m on the inside, the public think that Ja is “popped out.”
MIO: So in hindsight, would you have done things differently with the albums, holding back certain records?
Buck 3000: If I knew what I know now? Of course, and unfortunately that’s why tracks like “Clap Back” came out , which I thought was a perfect song. “Clap Back” isn’t really a hard song, it’s more of a club record, compared to say the other hard records he had, it’s not that hard. It’s a party hard record, and he should have had that sort of record all the time. But he didn’t, he did the “Always on Time” “Living it up” route.
MIO: Back to the new album, Ja has said it’s going to be like nothing we’ve ever heard from him before...
Buck 3000: I can’t say that, I think that he grew up as an artist, after all that he went through – he grew up, I mean it’s nothing that you’ve heard before but it’s still Ja Rule, you hear it and its like “oh, that’s Ja Rule.” It’s not so far away from what he did before, it’s not that far. But it is different. But I think he should still have the same elements that he had on the last albums where he’ll have hard shit, but I don’t think he wants to do that. We’ve got to have a little discussion about that, it can’t all be “Hollywood.”
MIO: Over the years we’ve seen the artists experiment with different sounds like “Chopped’n’Screwed” and Autotune, as an engineer/producer, do you enjoy trying these new things?
Buck 3000: I don’t like autotune at all! I told Ja not to do that, but he did it, even before Jay (D.O.A) I told him don’t do autotune, I don’t like it, you know why? Because everybody is doing it, and Ja Rule is a big artist, he’s not a dude that needs it, he sold 30 million records in his life! He doesn’t need that. He needs to set the trend, he’s a trend setter. That’s how I feel, that’s why I didn’t like the autotune thing. But he got with Somong, So’s a talented dude, he got him doing autotune.
MIO: But do you at least enjoy trying things like autotune and chopped’n’screwed?
Buck 3000: See, Chopped’N’Screwed is hip hop to me, autotune isn’t. I actually did the “All I Need” record with Ja, I didn’t do the autotune one, nope – I did not do that!! I’m not gonna take credit for that, So(Somong) did that. But I did “All I Need” I did “Million Dollar Jewellery” everything else, that’s fun to me, that’s hip hop. But as far as the autotune – nope!
MIO: Ok so let’s talk about “The Last Temptation” for a minute, there are rumours that Ja and Seven were going to go in a completely different direction with that record, what happened?
Buck 3000: I don’t really know what you’re talking about...
MIO: You know like “Streets Raised Me”....
Buck 3000: With Mary J Blige? Mary J Blige didn’t make that album though?
MIO: Yeah, allegedly there was a double album, according to rule anyway. Rule was on MTV saying that he was going to take it back to VVV and get in touch with his roots.
Buck 3000: But he didn’t do it. That’s what I’m talking about, I never heard it. “The Last Temptation” it was the biggest budget he ever had and I don’t think he messed it up , I mean he sold 2 million off that album but he was supposed to sell 8 million, that’s the problem. He didn’t mess it up, maybe Bobby Brown messed it up! “Thug Lovin” to me was a dope record. We thought that was a dope plan but it didn’t work out . Do you understand about Ja? I don’t know if you know this about him, he produces 80% of his music. He does it himself but people don’t know that. “Thug Loving” “Mesmerize” every big record besides “Always on Time” he actually produced. He actually said “I want it to sound like this, I want it to sound like this...” every time, and people don’t know that about him, dude is the illest dude I’ve ever met. The dude is so genius and he’s so cool, it’s crazy.
MIO: Harry-O tells us that you play a huge part in crafting records and song writing here, how come you don’t take more credit for that?
Buck 3000: I don’t like to take too much credit, I just don’t.
MIO: Is it something you enjoy doing?
Buck 3000: Yeah, that’s something I learned from Irv, Irv is the guy that does everything, and I learned from watching him, so when he’s not there the artist needs somebody to fill that void. I fill that void. And actually before I even came to Murder Inc. I was a rapper/producer, I was a dancer I did everything. So when I came here.... (MIO: will you show us some moves?) (laughs) that was back then!! I don’t do that no more, I do 2-step. But yeah, I put a lot of work into artists and all that, and everybody in here knows that, I might say “don’t say this, say that” I did drops. I did drops on “Foolish” and people don’t know. Seven took credit for that, but that’s another story! But I helped Seven, I helped Chink, I help everybody.
MIO: Speaking of Seven and working with him over the years, he was a huge part of Murder Inc.’s success story, how big of a loss was he when he left?
Buck 3000: Was he a loss?
MIO: Well sum it up for us.
Buck 3000: See he became crazier, he went way over there, he started going crazy. I don’t know, see when “Pain is Love” came in, actually what was the first album he worked on? I think it was Ashanti’s first album. Wait, “Pain is Love” was before Ashanti, with “Always on Time” He did almost all of “Pain is Love” “Living it Up” was Lil’Rob but besides that, it was all Seven. That was his album, he did his thing. But did we lose anything? Of course we did.
MIO: As far as the family/chemistry element, was there anything lost there?
Buck 3000: At the end of the day Seven was talented but I gotta explain something, we had a family. It was me, him, Chink, Ja, Ashanti, Caddy, Black Child, we’d all work as a unit. So can I say, it wasn’t just Seven, it was all of us, all together. So as far as those big records like “I’m Real” and “Always on Time” Irv told him what to do! Irv was the guy, and if it wasn’t Irv, it was Ja Rule.
MIO: On Ashanti's “Chapter II” you had your own skit.
Buck 3000: You know what? She’s funny; she tricked me on that one! All I did, honestly, was leave her a message, then we come to the studio and one day she just says “press record!” and I’m like “for what? What you talking about?” But I pressed record and I had it muted, I didn’t hear it, I didn’t understand nothing! She just played it off her phone and that was it! A lot of people didn’t like the skit though, people hated it. Everything was “beep, beep, beep” we had to beep everything out because I was cursing! I was wilding, because I was just leaving her a message, it wasn’t for the public, it was for me and her.
MIO: You and Ashanti always had a good relationship.
Buck 3000: Bonny is my peoples. We still cool, I just text her yesterday, she text me back, but today was the last time I text her.
MIO: It’s good to know that the connection isn’t lost.
Buck 3000: No it’s not, everyone, I mean Ja is going to be my guy regardless, Ja and her and Irv! Everybody else, I do not care! I do not care about anybody else!
MIO: One last thing about Ashanti: “Judas.” When you heard that...
Buck 3000: I was like “why you doing that?” But my word was not born so it’s like whatever, he was like “Get out of here Buck, I need to do me!” But they spoke after that, they’re cool.
MIO: They performed after that, on Good Morning America.
Buck 3000: Yeah but I heard it wasn’t that dope. No chemistry, see that’s my point, I think that’s what’s lost in this situation.
MIO: So as one of the main men behind the music here, what’s your message to the Murder Inc. fans.
Buck 3000: It’s hard because I’m a Murder Inc. fan too, but I’m still hanging on, so hang on with me, keep the situation going, help the situation, because we need help! We’ve got the talent we just need the masses to understand, help the masses understand. It’s not easy what we’re going through, because, we’re here every day making the records, the records are there, but then we put them out and the public don’t like them.
MIO: Do you feel like it’s just not Murder Inc’s time anymore?
Buck 3000: That could be it, but everybody goes through they’re ups and downs.
MIO: Do you think Irv can reinvent Murder Inc.?
Buck 3000: I don’t know. I Hope so. I hope so though, I’m still here, so I hope so.
